Our latest podcast episode takes a look at the case of Paul Vaughn, whose recent FBI raid and subsequent legal struggle under conspiracy charges raise critical questions about the preservation of our First Amendment rights, and the overreach of law enforcement.
Kyle, a pivotal member of the TN and T.REX community (and Paul Vaughn's son-in-law), joins Isaac to offer a deeply personal perspective on the chilling effects that this kind of judicial and prosecutorial activism can have.
For more information, subscribe to the Stifled Cry podcast here, on stifledcry.com
Our latest podcast episode takes a look at the case of Paul Vaughn, whose recent FBI raid and subsequent legal struggle under conspiracy charges raise critical questions about the preservation of our First Amendment rights, and the overreach of law enforcement.
Kyle, a pivotal member of the TN and T.REX community (and Paul Vaughn's son-in-law), joins Isaac to offer a deeply personal perspective on the chilling effects that this kind of judicial and prosecutorial activism can have.
For more information, subscribe to the Stifled Cry podcast here, on stifledcry.com
There's been a lot of talk recently about federal agencies and law enforcement types being weaponized against the political enemies of this administration. But that's the sort of thing that always happens to you know somebody else like my friend, paul Vaughn. Several months ago the FBI visited his home with guns drawn. They came inside and dragged him out in front of his wife and his children, and his court case begins this week. So let's get into it. Welcome back to another T-Rex talk.
Isaac:I am currently walking down Seventh Street. It's an intersection of Church Street and Seventh Street and I actually come down here fairly often because it's a good parking garage that gets me close to the Tennessee Capitol. But, even though the legislature began their new session just a few days ago, actually have nothing to do with Tennessee politics. Today it is Saturday morning and we are actually here in the shadow of a federal courthouse named after Fred Thompson. We're meeting with a bunch of friends and church members and folks from the larger community just to pray about an upcoming court case that begins on Tuesday. I don't want to take away from the fact that the conversation around January 6th has been ridiculously overblown and a lot of the charges are kind of over the top, but it isn't the only example of prosecutorial and judicial activism coming down really hard on regular people. A good friend of mine was raided by the FBI recently and it is his federal case that begins on Tuesday.
Isaac:He's ever been on the podcast and you probably don't know him, but his son-in-law is Kyle. Kyle, who works at T-Rex. Kyle, who has been on the podcast. Kyle, who has been running the customer service and customer experience side of T-Rex very well and for a very long time. So this case hits pretty close to home for a lot of us, but it also, I think, really ties into a whole bunch of different things that we've talked about here at T-Rex mainly community, and I think that it has a whole bunch of lessons for people who are not directly involved in our community, and so I wanted to let Kyle talk a little bit more about the situation. Kyle, can you tell us a little bit more about this case? Because not only is it your father-in-law, but also you are producing a podcast with a much higher production value than what is currently being recorded and much better production value than the finished product is going to be. So you've been doing a lot of research on not just this case, but other cases as well. How would you sum this up?
Kyle:In short, the federal government is leveraging a law called the FACE Act that was passed back in 1994. They've started leveraging that much more aggressively since the DOB's decision was handed down.
Isaac:Which feels like kind of a revenge thing. I was told for years and years and years that Roe v Wade could never be overturned, and then there's this big spate of prosecutions after it happened.
Kyle:It could be revenge. I may have a slightly more jaded view.
Kyle:It could also be that you're directly related to people who don't want to say everything that is directly under mind it could be, but basically the big push for the pro-life movement for a long time was overturning Roe, when in reality they let FACE be passed back in the 90s. And the way I've summed it up in the past is that Roe v Wade directly protected what the FACE Act indirectly protects. So it doesn't enshrine the right to abortion, but it does enshrine the right to provide and access reproductive health care. So it's a very nuanced piece of legislation that all the conservatives in the 90s thought okay, this is great, we're going to protect churches at the same time as we protect abortion clinics.
Isaac:So it's good An odd addition.
Kyle:Yes, Well, they're both places of religious worship, yeah.
Isaac:I wonder if people realize that's what they were doing when they did that Well here's the other thing. My understanding of the FACE Act is the maximum penalty is a misdemeanor with six months in prison, and I forget the fine For our first time.
Kyle:First time, nonviolent offenses. Maximum penalty is $10,000 fine and six months in prison. Yep. And it's a misdemeanor, and it's a misdemeanor.
Isaac:But my understanding is that Paul Vaughn is facing ten years in prison because he didn't commit the misdemeanor, he only conspired.
Kyle:Yeah, they're claiming conspiracy and there are two main conspiracy charges. Basically that can be filed under the federal government federal law. You have a 371 conspiracy charges, which is what we typically hear about, you know, conspiracy to defraud the federal government, because they really don't like that.
Isaac:And some of the only thefts that they really hate.
Kyle:Right that under that law, you can only be charged equal to the maximum penalty of the original offense. However, they're charging under a 241 conspiracy charge, which means that it is automatically a felony Yep and maximum penalty of somewhere in the neighborhood of $250 to $350,000 fine and 10 years in prison.
Isaac:This reminds me of something that we have talked about personally and we've talked about on the podcast as well the way that the ATF will take a law like the NFA 1934, almost 100 year old law that is written to do one thing and that will be continually expanded, based on new rules, new definitions, new procedures, until it has, so incredibly, grown beyond the scope of the original law. Right, with no legislative oversight, with no new law being made, so the spirit of the old law is not being upheld, no new law has been made and this whole new thing has grown up, and oftentimes that new thing is not really under the three branches of government anymore.
Kyle:Right, the legislators are out, the executive is oftentimes telling specific federal people to do stuff, and so even judicial is kind of removed in some ways, yeah, and even if you're not pro-life or you don't support that cause, the FACE Act poses some very serious First Amendment issues, and that was a big part of the battle back in Congress when they were first discussing the bill, because what they're doing is they're making a form of protest illegal under certain circumstances, right. So what we see happening today is, you see, this form of protest and as they're expanding that law, we're going to start seeing more and more forms of protest which America has a long and glorious tradition of become illegal under those expanded rules.
Isaac:Right. So the other thing the FACE Act does you mentioned that it protects reproductive health care, aka murder type institutions, and then it also protects churches. Yes, now there have been a lot of church vandalism incidents recently, so could it be that all immediately after the DoBs decision, we see this huge spike in FACE Act prosecutions? Could it be that those are actually the federal government going after church vandals? I haven't seen those. You've done the research and so, interestingly, not everything is pro-life protesters being prosecuted.
Kyle:That is true, that is true, there is one exception.
Isaac:There are a couple of exceptions there are two exceptions to the rule, but none of them are churches.
Kyle:No, there are a few crisis pregnancy centers that have been vandalized and the DOJ has decided to prosecute those cases. Try and go after those criminals. Interestingly enough, I would say no, those people should not be prosecuted Like. This is just a bad legislation. On its no pun intended, but on its face it's just bad legislation.
Isaac:Yes.
Kyle:And that's really what needs to be addressed in government today. You have First Amendment issues and ironically it is under the Civil Rights section of US penal code, so they're viewing this as a protection of civil rights by prohibiting forms of protest Right.
Isaac:So we have bad law that has been further expanded by federal prosecutorial chicanery outside of more legislation. So we have bad procedure on top of bad law. And this actually takes us back kind of to something we talk about in the podcast, which is community. I have to say, kyle, I'm super glad that you are involved in this, and let me talk about Paul Vaughn for a minute. Paul Vaughn is one of the first people that I met when we were visiting Tennessee before we moved here, and he gave us so much time answering questions about middle Tennessee. And then, after we moved here, I remember having conversations with him about people moving to middle Tennessee. There's no internet, there's no this, there's no that. How are home businesses, small businesses, gonna survive? And he built an internet company to help the community, and T-Rex is only one of many businesses that used his internet service for years when there were literally no alternatives. If you are that kind of team player, if you are that kind of community person, are you just naturally on the hook for like the conspiracy organization.
Kyle:So that is one of the most concerning things about this case is the way they are defining conspiracy and the way they're choosing to prosecute it. I heard in one of the pretrial hearings that not for this case, but for another related case if you so much as talked to another person about this, but you didn't even go to the location where the protest was happening when it was happening, you could potentially be charged with conspiracy. I mean, we see this in some of the January 6th cases.
Isaac:Absolutely, I was trying to figure out the best place to insert that, but yeah, somehow, with all of the people that didn't go into the Capitol building needed to be hunted down, there still is time to invade Paul Vaughn's privacy, fbi agents with drawn weapons coming to pick him up because of conspiring to commit a misdemeanor that he himself did not actually commit and has not been charged with, and wasn't physically in the area and so on and so forth.
Isaac:It's a pretty fascinating case, but it does kind of go back to the community thing. If you are not having conversations with people, you don't have community. If you are having conversations with people that become problematic later, you are on the hook for significant penalties.
Kyle:And really, ultimately, it all boils back to sanctity of life, right? I mean, that's why T-Rex exists. We exist to help protect and defend life and liberty. Pro-life protesters believe that life is important and should be protected, but a part of the entire pro-life and sanctity of life notion and understanding is believing that people are deserving of respect in that community and that human interaction that we all need is necessary. And you have the federal government. Whether it be through social distancing or covering up everyone's face or whatever they're trying to do conspiracy charges they're trying to break apart these bonds and an actual understanding of humanity from the beginning of life all the way to the end of life and everything in between.
Isaac:It is chilling. I do want to recommend to everybody listening to the podcast go check out your podcast. Not only is the production value better, but the information is really good. It's well-written and it's probably the best way to keep track of what's going on. Are you planning on blow-by-blow, minute-by-minute updates or more thoughtful explanations of what's going on? A little bit of both.
Kyle:The goal is, every night while the trial is happening, we'll be releasing some form of update on the podcast as well as our YouTube channel, and Then, once the trial is over and we have a little bit more time to breathe, we'll be putting together some content, a little bit more of the analysis and more in-depth kind of blow-by-blow analysis of what the prosecution was doing, what their Strategy was, how they acted that out in the courtroom and things like that.
Isaac:Yeah, yeah, it's. It's gonna be interesting to see how this plays out. Go subscribe to the stifled cry on any of your podcast services, because this is really important. But the other thing I want to do a homework assignment. I want to tell people get out. I've said this before.
Isaac:I will continue to say this get out and talk to your neighbors. Are you potentially putting yourself on the hook for future conspiracy charges? Yes, apparently yes, but are you also constructing the support network that you and your neighbors will need in the future If this continues to get out of hand? Yes, absolutely and emphatically yes. If you get out and you talk to your neighbors, some of your neighbors are gonna be More likely to NF and federal court than others.
Isaac:But I think it's just underscores how much we need community and I, I, I can't, I can't think of a better example of a community not organizer, but a community servant than Paul Vaughn and trying to build his local community by providing services, by providing help, by providing information to people in many different ways and just encouragement to people. But now I see that that you, his son-in-law, are doing the same thing. I see you do that at T-Rex, I see you do that in your community, and I see you doing that with this podcast, so yeah, I'm sure you're putting yourself on the hook for things, but I possibly, you know I'm deeply grateful.
Kyle:Yeah, tremendously. The gold podcast is to show people the stories and the hearts of the people. Yeah involved the defendants in the case and to show people that once you have that community around you, that you can get through it and Honestly come out on the other side, regardless of the outcome. Yes, even better than when you went in.
Isaac:Yeah, it is important that we get these stories out and it's important that we build these kind of networks and then we have the ability to share knowledge. Now, are is any of that going to be allowed in the courtroom the hearts and and motives and desires of the people who are charged? Absolutely not. Why would that be? I thought motive was like an important component of criminal justice and so forth.
Kyle:One would think I'll tack on to your recommendation to build community. I recommend that, if you have the opportunity, go and sit in on federal court proceedings, even if you don't know the people involved. It is a very enlightening experience and you get to see how the decisions are made. In this particular case, any reference to the law of God superseding the law of the country is removed from the video clips in evidence because they don't want the jury to possibly nullify this case.
Isaac:Interesting. So if the judge and prosecution are really worried that the jury might nullify the case and throw it out, it seems like that should give them a little bit of extra food for thought as they continue on their pursuing of the case.
Kyle:This particular judge believes that jury nullification is a power, not a right, and it is a power that she has the power to revoke.
Isaac:I see Another privilege handed down at the benevolence of our unimpeachable leaders. I see yes.
Kyle:It all boils down to. Where does truth and justice come from? Is the law attempting to conform to justice or is justice conforming to the law?
Isaac:Right, we should talk sometime about biblical law, natural law, positive law, the three different potential approaches. There's a lot to unpack there Absolutely Well, I know that you have a lot to do today, because it is Saturday and the trial begins this coming Tuesday, January 16.
Isaac:It is going to be a very interesting week for you. Again, kyle, I can't thank you enough for all that you have done to help build the TRX community, all that you are helping to do to build a new, larger community, but that all of that started because you were just serving your local community. So I didn't actually think there's going to be another one of our many community episodes, but it really is that.
Kyle:Yeah, it's been a huge blessing to be able to be a part of all of this.
Isaac:Yeah, sometimes tremendous blessings come out of unexpected and unjust conspiracy charges. Do you remember when our founders got together and the green dragging in and talked treason over and over and over again?
Kyle:Yeah, technically they would be liable under a 241 conspiracy charge in our current penal code Fascinating.
Isaac:Very good. Well, we will continue to be watching this case with considerable interest. I'm going to be continuing your list of your podcasts. Hopefully other people do. Thank you, kyle, and thank you all of you for listening to this podcast, where we will continue to talk about these larger issues of community and federal overreach. Yeah Well, thank you for making the time to sit down with me, so check the show notes. I'm going to have links to the Seifeldt Cry website and some of the other things that will make it easier for you to subscribe to the podcast. If you're interested in this particular case, it's going to be the best place to go for information, but also if you're interested in the larger uses and misuses of the FACE Act and some of the other things pertaining to the case, kyle and the other guys working on the show, bo and others, are going to be doing more deep dives into that.
Isaac:I realize that I'm probably going to come under a little bit of fire for recommending that you get out and build communities and build networks in the connotation of people being federally charged with conspiracy, but I don't mean the most extreme and egregious thing that most people are going to jump all over me, for I'm just talking about the basic neighborhood, small town communities that have already existed. I'm just talking about the really basic stuff, like Paul Vaughn starting a small wireless internet company to serve his neighbors and the people that were around him. I'm talking about the fact that Kyle came along and helped T-Rex by running customer service for so long Actually, before that he was buffing holsters. I'm talking about the network of people that got together this morning to pray and to sing and to encourage one another before this rather disturbing federal case. These are not horrifying, subversive, conspiratorial, treasonous, extremist networks.
Isaac:These are just the basic human families and communities and interactions that go back to the very beginning of human time. This is just how people work together. This is just how relationships work, and if these things are in fact under attack, then all the more reason to strengthen them rather than abandon them. I'm very appreciative of all of you who have bought product from T-Rex Arms and allowed that business to grow, which has been really tremendous, and I'm really glad for all of you who are listening to this podcast and are interested in this kind of information, learning more about it. But remember, even though you're part of this larger T-Rex slash podcast community. It's kind of a one-way thing. You need to be part of a closer, more local community. It's absolutely vital that you have these kind of networks, even though people are going to assume the worst.